Serious Problem with Kite System

sameer edited April 2017 in General
I closed my account ... I had generated extraodinary Brokerage(u can check if u doubt) for you since I started using Kite API but can no more tolerant non-sense of Kite till you improve your system. Withdrawn all my money

@nithin On 19th kite automatically sold excess 1466 units of shares of Hexaware from my system at 107.2 and automatically squared-off at 107.72 almost 0.5% above. I suffered losss of Rs.800 becauze of that. I filed ticket Ticket #390437 for that. But your support team even did not bother to reply(Ticket #390437)

Is this not fraud when your system automatically buying/shorting and squaring-off trades without owner's permission ?

I know this is not for Zerodha queries but support system is not responding and what ur system did to me is very serious and wanted to take this matter to founder of Zerodha and this is only platform THAT I KNOW where I can interact with @nithin
  • sameer
    sameer edited April 2017
    I am sensing very bad bug in your auto-squareoff system for BO/MNS orders which might put you and your customers in very big trouble in future if not fixed as early as possible. I have faced this issue 4 times in last 1 month where either your square-off excess units and square-off lesser units. If somebody does not take care of it manually, he has to take delivery of shares and gap up/down can lead to big losses as intra-day trades are done with big leverage
  • ankur0101
    @sameer , I think give them some time to check your support ticket. When did you open this ticket? Also if you are doing algo trading, there is a possibility that your algo has squared off the script. Have you implemented logging at your local database level? If not, it would be very much important to record all actions of buy/sell in a file or a database which you need to maintain.
  • sujith
    Hi @sameer,
    You have too many orders for the same scrip and none of them has the above-mentioned price, I think the price you have mentioned is the average price. Can you private message order ids for which you faced the issue. We will check and get back to you.
  • sameer
    Hi @Sujith,
    I had ~5500 buy BO orders. Your BO auto-squareoff system at 3:20pm squared-off ~7000 Hexaware Shares at ~107.2. Later your system at 3:25pm bought back excess ~1500 shares at ~107.2.
    I dont have exact prices but I will share order numbers.
  • sujith
    Hi @sameer,
    On Friday 21st April, 09:17 AM to 09:37 AM there was an issue with exchange connectivity, wherein only certain orders were getting placed and some were never placed. But all orders were visible to the front end. In your case, getOrders() was returning order but internally it was never placed. So at end of the day, our RMS had to manually square off your orders.

    In last week, we had other issues also because of which you didn't get the reply from our support team also.
  • nithin
    @sameer , this is a small issue we are facing with brackets. How auto square offs on brackets work is that -there are two pending orders(SL and exit), all pending SL gets executed and then all targets gets cancelled. Since this process is running for all clients, there can be a delay from SL execution to target cancellation. If in this time, target also gets executed, a new position gets taken. This new position is then forcibly closed by our risk team.
    This is not a bug, whatever we do, this can always happen if you let your orders open for auto square offs. The best thing to do is that before 3.20 pm, you square off your positions on your own and don't let positions open for auto suareoffs.
    We will soon be charging Rs 20 as call n trade charges for all admin square offs to try coerce clients into squaring off all MIS/BO/CO square offs on their own.
  • sameer
    sameer edited April 2017
  • sabyasm
    sabyasm edited April 2017
    @nithin, @sujith

    That's a good initiative. 20 admin fee per day and not per open order I suppose? Otherwise the admin fees (if incurred) will be skyrocketed as the api orders tend to be large in number in order to reduce impact cost.

    Keeping this in mind, would it be possible to increase the api rate limitation so that the "order close" can be done more than 3/sec to something like 5-8 per second? This would give developer enough time to be in the market as close as possible till 15:20, enough time to handle any exception caused while trying to close the order.
  • sujith
    Hi @sabyasm,
    Exchange leased lines are capable of transmitting only a certain number of orders per second. Hence This being the case, the load on the system becomes really high at the square-off times. So it's always better to square off your positions individually rather than relying on the system to do it for you. We would prefer not to ruin the experience of other users on the platform. Since all users have time up to 3:20 PM to square off their own positions, this shouldn't be much of an issue. Also, whenever we do start charging for square off orders, the idea is to charge each order placed and not Rs. 20 per user. This would apply to traders using other Zerodha platforms and users on Kite Connect.
  • sauravkedia
    The issue in implementing this is that many of us fire orders in the morning and then switch off system and go to work. Now, if we have to keep system live till 3.15 or maybe login again at 3.15 or so, it will be too much extra work for us. Charging per order will be costly. This will increase costs significantly for office goers/lazy traders. Keeping the trading system on during the day when no orders will get fired is definitely not recommended.
  • sujith
    Hi @skk,
    If we keep doing square off for all clients then there will be consequences as you can see in Sameer's case both stop-loss and target orders get executed and there are other consequences also.
    If we hadn't noticed it then he would have ended up keeping that position open and next day he could have faced more losses. This will significantly increase risk at our end.

    We are not asking people to keep the system open all the time, a user can either put stop-loss order or can come online and square-off positions.
  • sabyasm

    Exactly my point. This is why increasing the order close api threshold limit from 3/s to 5-6/s will help developers close out the positions in much efficient manner before hitting 3:20. Do you think this is possible?

    The other option would be - a modification in api to support array of orderids in place of single orderid.

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